Mackenzie Jackson: Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of The Secure Disclosure, and we're back with one of my favorite guests that we've had. I'm so thrilled to have you back here, Len. Thanks so much for coming and attending me today.
Len Noe: Oh my god, Mackenzie. Anytime you call and you want to sit down and talk, I'm here.
Mackenzie Jackson: This is so crazy. So, I prepare for interviews, but I just know immediately that that's kind of useless with you because I have no idea where this is going to go. But look,
Len Noe: I prefer the natural. To be honest, I think somebody sent over some questions for me and I was just like, "Yeah, I'm not even going to look." I respect the hell out of you, but it's like I'm not even going to bother looking at these, because I'm not trying to sound cocky, but it doesn't matter what people start as. I typically will just say something and the next thing you know, we're going off into left field, because that's where I live.
Mackenzie Jackson: Well, let's spend the whole podcast there. But I think maybe just as a start, you've been on the podcast before, but just for people, we've had a lot of growth since then. So, let's start off by a little bit about who you are. You are a legitimate cyborg, which sounds ridiculous, but I'll kind of let you take your journey a little bit into kind of where we are.
Len Noe: My name is Len Noe, and I am the world's first recognized augmented ethical hacker. Does that mean that I am the future? No, I'm here in the present with everybody else. But it does mean that I have a few less lines that I'm not willing to go past in the lines of decency, what people see as potentially immoral or unnatural. And I have surgically implanted now 13 microchips and other devices into my arms, my legs for the purposes of cybersecurity, both offensive as well as defensive.
Mackenzie Jackson: Yeah. Crazy. And for those of you,
Len Noe: It still gets crazy every time you say it.
Mackenzie Jackson: This is a shameless promotion for you. So for all of the new listeners, go look at the historical podcast. We're going to talk a lot about that in those. We're not going to do that today, but the history's there. And every episode from there to now is something that you probably want to watch and listen to as well.
Len Noe: For sure. I don't think we need to reiterate a little bit, but,
Mackenzie Jackson: I kind of want to dive into some of the goodies that you brought me because I think it's really difficult for people to even comprehend what this looks like. So, we have here some of the things that you have in here.
Len Noe: Mhm.
Mackenzie Jackson: This looks pretty huge. It's about the size of an old SD card and about maybe one and a half times as thick. And the truth is that design is not one that's even going to be used, but that's a prototype that was created by Amal Graafstra over at Dangerous Things. And it kind of shows the technology and what we're working with.
Len Noe: Yeah.
Mackenzie Jackson: So that in his hand right there is an implantable prototype for a one terabyte hard drive. And what is the purpose of having as a hacker a one terabyte hard drive in your body? Well, we're going to give up a little bit of the goodies from the last episode, and I'm going to reiterate the main reason why I personally chose to do this, and that is once you put any type of technology inside your body, whether it's a medical necessity or not, it takes on the same privacy laws within the United States under HIPAA and GDPR in Europe as far as health and data privacy. So realistically, unless you're caught in the commission of a crime, there is no way to force me to compel the fact that I have implanted technology.
Len Noe: I don't know if you guys have this over there back in the Netherlands, but we have things here in the US, especially in regards to the US military, called SCIFs. And I'm not going to go through what the acronym means because I will probably mess up one of the words or forget. So, we'll just say it's like the ultimate in secured locations for military communications and data. I am a living nightmare for a place like that, right? Just with what I have today in terms of wireless technology. Now, take that and add the fact that I could potentially exfiltrate up to one terabyte of data and there's not a thing that you can do to stop me.
Mackenzie Jackson: It's so crazy. And we talked about this last year as you said. And I want to kind of ask a question because we're talking about the fact last year that we're so far behind in terms of even being able to understand this to be able to regulate it or just not even regulate it, just like that. Where are we at now? Are people starting to wake up to the fact that this is a possibility or are we,
Len Noe: I think we're more awake and at the risk of sounding a little conceited, I'd like to think that I had a part to play in that. But I think just over the course of the last year with technology in general, I think people are waking up to the idea that we are probably much farther along down the technological road than most people would have believed at first thought, you know, between agentic AI. We're seeing now more implantable medical devices. I mean, are you familiar with, oh gosh, I just had it and it flipped out of my mind. It'll come to me in a second, but there's an implant that you can actually put under your collar bone if you have sleep apnea, right? Yeah. You know, and to be fair, my buddy asked me, "Would you ever get something like that?" And I'm like, "No." They were like, "Why?" I was like, "Let's take a look at the mechanics of that device for about two seconds." So, the big part that goes under your collar bone is the battery. They actually run wires up along your neck and they actually attach electrodes to the muscle or I believe it's the muscle right here at the bottom of the jaw. And with a gentle electronic pulse, it will push your bottom jaw out a little bit, which opens the airway in the throat and allows for you to better breathe while you're sleeping, right? This is controlled through a device and an app on the phone. I'm not going to get into the technology. Now, I have a lot of hacker friends. And I could see myself sitting here doing an amazing podcast with you and in the middle of my. I could see it happening, you know, but the fact is we're seeing medicine move more to a remote administration. Everything is being pushed to our cell phones and remote devices. You know, case in point, back to the sleep apnea thing. I know somebody who recently went through a sleep apnea study and I had to go through one of these when I was a little bit heavier and younger and I remember having to go in and for somebody like me it was kind of cool because they put all these little electrodes all over your head and everything and I looked in the mirror I'm like, "Oh, I look like a robot." How foreshadowing was that, you know, but today they send you a little wristband with something that you slip over your finger like an oxygen sensor and you go to sleep. That's it. So I think that the idea of remote technology whether at this point I still see it as not pretty much more non-invasive but I think we're starting to open our eyes to a different concept kind of like when we went from the only way you could see a doctor was in person to during COVID and the advent of telemedicine. So I do think that we're a little bit farther down the road. I don't think we're anywhere farther in terms of security, securing these types of attacks or looking at them as a real threat vector, but the amount of people and again I'd like to think that I had a small part to play in this just by bringing it to people's attention. The number of people who are now implanted has grown exponentially. So there are even more people than last year or when we first talked about this, you know, a couple of years back that are similar have similar or equal to trying to equal me might be hard, but on the journey at least.
Mackenzie Jackson: Yeah, on the journey.
Len Noe: You know there are more transhumans and if, here's one going to be one of those first times where I'm going to probably see if you want to turn left with me. I have a new theory on that and I'd like to introduce it and then we'll talk a little bit more about the good.
Mackenzie Jackson: Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
Len Noe: I challenge that if we take a look at the concept of just what the word transhumanism means and that is the integration of technology into the human element. I challenge you to tell me that you, Mackenzie, are not non-invasively transhuman. Transhuman meaning like, like a human that's kind of gone beyond.
Mackenzie Jackson: Nope. We're going with the actual definition. So transhumans, you know, we are the ones of us that have become implanted. We've basically taken that term. But the actual definition is anyone who integrates technology into their life to the point where it can't necessarily be removed but it enhances or addresses a deficiency within the human condition. So my theory that I will challenge to you to come back to but and I'm doing this on purpose because I think I want you to mull on this for a minute and I got to be cautious in how I say this, in any of the more advanced areas of the world where who have adopted things such as the internet and cellular mobile technology. I would argue that all of us and even within the socio structure of how our governments are running including access to specific services are now dependent on technology. So therefore the only difference between you and me is a line at the skin. Yeah. Right. And well, I mean, because where my brain went to when you meant that I don't know this is where you intended to go but where my brain kind of goes is that like I'm pretty inseparable from technology all the time with my phone, you know, with various things with wearables and I'm exercising, I'm wearing watches and all of that. And it's kind of I like the point like something that a lot of it interfaces like if you talk about not this watch, but like the wearable watches that I wear out and I sleep with, they're still interfacing with my body in a way just not below the skin. But correct, but like.
Len Noe: Yeah. So then what is the desire to think about it and let's finish this because this goes pretty deep and you took the hook so I'm glad. So, additionally beyond that, that hard drive, which as you said, I mean, who wouldn't want to be able to just store, you know, "Hey, here's my backup drive." What happened to your backup? You know, I really don't want to talk about how DR strategy works in that case, but we're not going to get into that. But also, I brought you a couple of other things. So, this one right here I thought was really, really interesting. This is an implantable pulse oximeter. So the little thing that you would put on the end of your finger if you have some type of medical issue where you need to know if your blood oxygen drops. Implant one of these. And you have essentially the ability to check it anytime you want with a cell phone just like most people do with a continuous glucose meter.
Mackenzie Jackson: Yeah. Wow. And this doesn't, this seems much less scary than the other one. Yeah.
Len Noe: That is the standard format by the way.
Mackenzie Jackson: Right.
Len Noe: That, you know, that is the typical format that you would see from anything from Dangerous Things unless you're getting into some of the larger more abstract ones. And those are actually much easier to implant as well. They come preloaded in a syringe. You pinch the skin. You go between the dermal layer and the muscle tissue. You push the plunger. You're in. You're out in less than I would say two, three seconds.
Mackenzie Jackson: This feels like it kind of makes it a lot less scary. It does make it a lot less scary and I don't, I wanted to say this feels like an obvious next step but I think there's a lot of people that like squeamish not about the implant but just about the idea of technology inside you. But I think there's some that it's like if you did have the technology inside you could have tremendous ability and as you've kind of pointed out we're already pretty addicted to technology and we get piercings.
Len Noe: Oh, you know, you add it together it's not that crazy. It's really not. You know, everybody wants to be as close to that technological border as you can get. I mean, we now have, have you heard of the Tesla suit yet? This one blew my mind.
Mackenzie Jackson: No, but I can kind of imagine what it is.
Len Noe: No, I don't think, I really don't, I was going to stop and try to guess. This is a simulation suit. So, they utilize this in addition to virtual reality and augmented reality to train firefighters, first responders, military people. And if you're in some type of a simulation and you get shot, they have electric sensors and you will feel pain. If you get stabbed in the virtual reality, they have the ability to turn on heat, I don't know what they are, but the ability to generate heat and it'll feel like you have blood running down you so that you can experience all of the emotional trauma of a circumstance in a safe environment. So that way when you're put into that situation in real life, it's not that first panic and you know you've been there, you've done this, you survived. And if you want to get even older than that, remember playing your PlayStation and that rumble pack.
Mackenzie Jackson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Len Noe: You know, we want that digital experience, but people are afraid to go under the blade because you have, you can't look at yourself the same before and after, you know, and I know it sounds very dramatic, but it's not the same as getting an ear piercing or a body piercing, you know. Yeah. You know, "Hey, it's jewelry." You know, but this is especially things like the magnet, you know, in my finger. This has given me the ability to feel electromagnetic fields and currents. I can't walk down a hallway of a hospital that has an MRI and not be, "Oh," and it just makes you, in my opinion, much more in tune with the actual world because if I can feel this, and that's just one kind of frequency. Imagine all of the different waves that are going through our bodies right now while we're talking.
Mackenzie Jackson: Yeah.
Len Noe: I mean, Wi-Fi alone.
Mackenzie Jackson: Yes. But, like, absolutely. Are you worried about the, like, you know, you talked a little bit about the the hacking implications of if you had that in there. Are you worried about people being able to cross that line, maybe interfere with the electromagnet, like the idea of someone hacking you? A whole another level of, like, "Yeah," because it's like hacking you. Yeah.
Len Noe: You know, and that's another part to it. You know, I actually do have Faraday line clothing that I wear sometimes if I if I'm going someplace or doing something. You know, I don't, I'm not wearing it here at Defcon or, I mean, at this point if you know the funny thing is is the big one here in my hand. I actually am getting this one replaced. This one actually died. And the replacement when I was talking to Amal Graafstra from Dangerous Things who does all of my implants, he was like, "Do you want the blinkies on this one?" And I was like, "No, you know, I'm a hacker." And I was like, you know what? I don't think there's anybody in this space, the hacker space, the cyberspace, and people who have read about me. You know what? Put the blinkies on. So, the next time we see each other, I'll actually be able to hold up something here and you'll see like, I'll be Iron Man.
Mackenzie Jackson: That's. Is there anything that you've done that you, like, you obviously don't regret any of the the the devices that come to you? But is there is there one that you've kind of got or had? I don't know if you've had any like taken out since then that you kind of thought it didn't go the way you wanted that went a little bit too far or or or the risk or there was like a new risk. Is there something that?
Len Noe: The one that I, I don't regret any of them. I do regret not doing a little bit more research in the beginning. The only one that I really have an issue with is this little guy right there. And this was the very first implant I ever got.
Mackenzie Jackson: Mhm.
Len Noe: And I kind of look at it like that first tattoo you ever get.
Mackenzie Jackson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have mine here. It's terrible.
Len Noe: You know, you know, in the moment you're like, "This is the coolest thing I've ever done." And then you're like, "Oh, now I got to deal with this." So that was the very first one. It was the one that I came up with for leprosy, the idea, which is the attack against mobile devices. And I'm like, I can actually just put it here. It's perfect spot. So when I hold somebody's phone, the bioglass only has a very, very short range on it. It has to be held at the, because it's not omnidirectional. The antenna has to line up the right way. And if I'm like, "Here, let me see your cell phone." "Why does it look like you're trying to give my cell phone a noogie, Len?" "I'm polishing the back of it with the." It just didn't work. And the truth is that's what the large is the same basic implant as the small one. But it's like I wish I would have not done this one or if I did it I, you know, because now this one actually is used in part of my home security system. I'm not going to say how, but, you know, this is a Cybercast, but, you know, I wish I would have thought differently because this is, you know, really good prime real estate. And when you have two chips that are that close together, you know, you kind of got to go at the reader at certain angles in order to get it to read the right one. So, I don't really regret it. Just kind of regret the placement.
Mackenzie Jackson: Right. Well, that's kind of like just the journey. I want to go on a different direction. I've never been in this direction with you because I want to, I've been dying to kind of ask something in preparation for this and I guess it's probably like a little bit apprehensive about asking it last time because I think last time were all about what you could do, what were your capabilities and understanding that. I want to and I guess also part of your journey has been about getting this past acceptance, right? You know, like this is like this is something that people can do and it's not that weird, you know. Well, to some people, but some people probably know it's weird, you know. Let's not try and sugarcoat it. It's weird.
Len Noe: It's weird today.
Mackenzie Jackson: I want to ask you about just taking a word where I don't know if this, you know, like it it kind of cuts into the mainstream now, whatever, you know, not we're don't talking about all all people having implants, but we're talking about, you know, a lot of people choosing to have these implants to enhance their lives. And the question direction I want to is these are abilities for you to hack, but what about non-hackers having these in there for various reasons? We've talked about the sleep apnea. You know, there's lots of legitimate reasons why you might want to have storage that isn't hacking in today's age.
Len Noe: Well, let's just go with the most widely run use case right now that most people are using it for. There's two. One is being able to get into a locked facility under the correct legal pretense. You never have to worry about forgetting your keys to get into your office. You never have to worry about your keys to get into your gym. You know, those are the, and in my from my perspective, one of the most everyday used ones is a very specific brand of implant. They're called the VivoKey. Vivo K. And these are cryptobionic security chips. So, this chip is FIPS compliant. It can do HMAC, SHA-1. It can do OTP. It can do PGP. And you can put your key fob information on it and just get in your car and drive away. Never have to worry about losing your car keys.
Mackenzie Jackson: I totally, I can totally get, I can actually see myself, I could see, I could see myself going down this realm. But what I'm curious about is you from the hacker. What do you think about other people having this information or these ways that now I as a hacker I can interface with you? Do are you worried about giving black hats a very scary vector into humanity because you know how to deal with it. You're a specific person.
Len Noe: I think if we're going to go down that road, I think we have to ask the bigger question and that is at what point are we responsible for our own decisions? Because we can expand that into just AI in general. I mean, I wrote an article the other day that and it was called "Everybody's a programmer but nobody's a security architect."
Mackenzie Jackson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Len Noe: So, I mean,
Mackenzie Jackson: It's so true today. That's hard.
Len Noe: Yeah. It's true. Yeah. You know, so I mean, we talk about implants, but let's be honest, like we said, maybe you're wearing an Oura Ring. You've got a smartwatch, you've got a cell phone. The, I personally have all of the biometric features turned off on, you know, as funny as it is, I have them turned off on the phone. I don't have it, my or my watch. I've got them turned off on my phone. It's not, you know, doing my podia or pedometer steps, none of that.
Mackenzie Jackson: Do you feel safer with the the technologies inside you?
Len Noe: Yes, because I know they're mine, right? And you know that's one aspect of this conversation that you know most people don't really want to talk about is you know at least everything that I've done has been my choice. I'm not going through any type of provider. I own the data. I own the interface. And if anything goes wrong I face the consequences. I don't have to worry about sending myself a letter that says, "I'm sorry. We didn't lock down the firewall against your fingernail and now your identity has been compromised, but we're going to give you six months of identity insurance."
Mackenzie Jackson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, that, that like absolutely true. So I think like where my brain's kind of going now from this point of view is that if it stays in the realm that you're talking about where you're responsible for it, it's a very limited amount of people sure that will, that will do that. If it does take off into the mainstream then you are going to have, I don't know, some kind of like wacky bio insurance or something, you know, like and all of that. I, I guess like to wrap it up in a question is to say like, do you think there's a limit to like where, who should, who should do this and the decisions?
Len Noe: No, I, I can't. You know, I personally can't without being a hypocrite, right? You know, I really can't.
Mackenzie Jackson: I'm going to briefly interrupt this episode to thank our sponsor of the podcast, Aikido Security. Aikido Security is your complete code to cloud security solution. It secures everything from the first line of code that you write all the way through your supply chain, your dependencies. And of course, Aikido is also a leader in AI penetration testing and AI code auditing. So, make sure you check them out today. You can start for free at aikido.dev. All right, enough about that. Let's get back to the episode.
Len Noe: You know what I do think is this in some ways, especially if you're going with the implantable technology, this is going to bring back the concept of Darwinism.
Mackenzie Jackson: Yeah.
Len Noe: You notice you don't see a lot of really old, stupid, reckless people. There's a reason for that. And I, I won't deny that some of the things that I've done are would be considered reckless. But, you know, there's a fine line between pushing the boundaries and just being stupid. Yeah, one of the things that we haven't touched on, but I think, you know, based on the questions that you've brought up so far that I think needs to be addressed is if we're going to get to the point where we're going to have to use some type of a service to push this past, you know, the limits of what we can do today. I think the larger focus needs to be on the fact that right now there's nothing in terms of neural or biological data rights. There's an amazing individual out there. His name is Noland Arbaugh. And most people may not know him by name, but you know why he's here. He was Neuralink's patient one.
Mackenzie Jackson: Yeah. Yeah.
Len Noe: And when you look at this guy's situation, and I'm not trying to put words in his mouth. I'm not speaking for him. I'm looking at this from the outside as a spectator. So I'm not, the comments are mine and not to be attributed to him. Is what kind of situation must that have been like? If you're in some type of a handicap state and this is a device that could potentially give you freedom from, you know, the jail cell that is a human body and give you the ability to communicate, reach out to the internet, access to the internet. And I'm not saying it would be as good as if you didn't have an accident, but in order to get this, you have to basically submit to the EULA of whoever is putting that brain computer interface in your head. So, you have a choice of give up your whatever's going on in your mind. And right now, we're still pretty limited with what BCIs can do. You know, essentially move a cursor up, down, left, right, click.
Mackenzie Jackson: Yeah.
Len Noe: You know, it and it can you can add machine learning kind of like you do when you're texting where it can after a while it'll learn your speech patterns as you're and it'll do you know assumptions for you but we can't get what you're thinking yet but we can still know which parts of your brain are firing. And now we have AI and supercomputers. My point to this whole thing is is if we're going to get to the point where we need Verizon, you know, transhuman mod one, we kind of need to put some some barriers and some safeguards in place before we get to that point.
Mackenzie Jackson: For sure. And this is we kind of entered into a world that's I've been thinking about a lot recently. I think partly because of the conversations I've had with you in the past. Thanks a lot.
Len Noe: I'm sorry. You're welcome.
Mackenzie Jackson: But coming on to like the BCI, so brain computer interfaces. This is a part that kind of like freaks me out. And one of the reasons why it freaks me out is because there's a part of me that is like very, very curious.
Len Noe: Well, it's you know because we're kind of talking about a world at the moment where we're dealing with and this is with the Neuralinks and everything. We're dealing with people that are quadriplegics that you know like are kind of locked in. We're dealing with that. But the vision or the kind of where this could go with BCIs is, you know, having the ability to basically the the part where I'm like chatting away to a chatbot. I think I wish I could.
Mackenzie Jackson: Oh, you want to talk about the forking your consciousness into digital, you know, you're not the first. I don't know.
Len Noe: You know, there's a whole organization based around it. Check out the 2045 project.
Mackenzie Jackson: Okay.
Len Noe: This is.
Mackenzie Jackson: I don't know if I want to. It's there. Unlocking, you know, it's unlocking something that you kind of like, "Do you really want to see what's behind this door?" Yeah. This is a group of people who think that 2045 is the, by the time we hit 2045, we will be able to download or basically fork a version of our consciousness to digital. And there are scientists, physicists, theorists. This is like an actual brain trust of people. I am not a part of this organization. I don't want my brain forked. I don't want to be around and.
Len Noe: Well, I mean, like you were saying that you didn't want the, you didn't want the sleep apnea, that device. I'm going to assume that you don't want the BCI.
Mackenzie Jackson: Well, that's funny you mentioned that, because I actually did during my research for my book. I reached out to Synchron, which is Neuralink's main competitor, they're a company based out of Melbourne, Australia, and I asked them if they were interested in a control patient.
Len Noe: Right. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I offered, I'm like, "I want one of these." And of course, you know, they never responded.
Mackenzie Jackson: It is a, it is a wild thing because like the risks of that become so like so extreme and.
Len Noe: Not necessarily see and I'm not trying to go off on Neuralink and I'm not trying to say I'm getting a kickback from Synchron, but the methodologies are completely different, right? You know, Neuralink is open skull brain neurosurgery. Synchron actually goes into an artery up into the inside of a brain capillary and they expand on the inside like a stent, you know, like you would get for like a heart stent to hold a vein open. So, it's a much lower entry point in terms of skill for the doctor and it's a lot lower risk for the patient. So that's why I was like, "Yeah, that one." That one. I'm not asking Elon to crack open my noggin. But if you're just going to stick, you know, a catheter in my neck here and the next thing you know, I'm able to, you know, talk to the computer, you know, using its own language, sign me up.
Mackenzie Jackson: Because that's kind of the scenario that I got to get curious of. Like I'm sitting there trying to type out a giant prompt. It's like I already know what I want to say, right? And I have to spend time to say,
Len Noe: Oh, we're too efficient at this point in our lives, man. You know, I remember The Simpsons episode where Homer goes into the nursing home to visit his dad and realizes that they cater to him, you know, and he's like, "I could do this." And I remember him like he was sucking out of an IV bag and he was like, "What's the point of it? It's not efficient to chew my potato chips, you know." "Lays can't eat just one." And I was like, we're going to do what we're going to do. You know, and if I can be a little bit of a disruptor along the way and get people to think in some abstract ways, then I think I've done my job. Because whether you want to believe it or not, this all was predicted back in the late '70s by a gentleman by the name of FM-2030. He is one of the original founding fathers of cryogenics and he was the second big head figure in the transhumanistic world in terms of theories. He basically in his manifesto and theory on transhumanism he said in the future politics were not going to be what divided people. It was going to be technology, right? And you could would either be an upwinger is what he called them. And you would be looking up to the skies and seeing the future or you would be a downwinger and you would be looking at the ground and rooted in the past.
Mackenzie Jackson: Yeah.
Len Noe: And this was back in the late '70s that he made this prediction. And I can't help but just kind of look around and go, "Oh my god, he was right on point." You know, from AI to brain computers, you know, and you have the people who would be anti-tech, you know, like I know some friends of mine who are like, "I ain't talking to that artificial intelligence." I'm like, "You use Google, you already did, man. You just can't stop it now. You know, like, that's out of the bag."
Mackenzie Jackson: Yeah. Well, I mean, that's the other thing, too, is that it doesn't matter whether it doesn't matter what your opinion of AI is anymore because like there's no way to really avoid it unless you want to kind of just live in a farm and.
Len Noe: You know, the idea of taking up some some property up in, you know, up in the Arctic Circle in Alaska somewhere. You know, I'm not going to say it doesn't sound nice, but then I think of the winners and go, "Yeah, you know what? I'll stay in Texas." Yeah. It's kind of like my plan is like to try and try and make the money so I can become a farmer in New Zealand where I come from. Just just deal with the sheep. Oh, let's be honest. Neither one of us could live a life like that.
Mackenzie Jackson: No. No. We talk about it. We fantasize about it sometimes when it gets.
Len Noe: I've managed to get as close as you can get. I live on a little five-acre ranch. I do have sheep. I've got five dogs. I've got two cats. I've got beehives. I've got exotic birds. My wife has I think nine peacocks at the moment. So, and the funny thing is is out on my property, I have my office, which is a little out building that's I think 12 by 24, and all the technology in the whole property is in that one little space. So, I've got as close to that as I think I can get, but I can only deal with so much, you know, shoveling, mucking, feeding. Yeah. Yeah. It's all well and good.
Mackenzie Jackson: Drenching.
Len Noe: Yeah. I'm dying to ask a question and I'm conscious of time so I want to make sure kind of I get this in there but you know we've talked a lot about your implants but what we haven't talked about is another part of your life which is actually you help design and come up with a lot of these as well you know like the pushing the boundaries from that perspective as well. So, you know, you're not just kind of taking what's on the shelf, you're part of moving the needle forward of what's actually capable.
Mackenzie Jackson: I appreciate that. So what what would be something that you wish you could create as an implant. What would and what would kind of cool?
Len Noe: It's not even what I what I would like to create. It's something I've actually been in the process of prototyping now for and it's something we've talked about. I want the implantable full stack single board computer. I want compute. I mean, even with the hard drives and everything, you know, yeah, we may be able to get, you know, a little, you know, solid state type of thing. Yeah, but I want a full computer.
Mackenzie Jackson: I remember reading something about peg legs being around there, you know, and that was kind of around this concept like the.
Len Noe: It was and why is that not reached a point where that's kind of because I mean it's big.
Mackenzie Jackson: It that was a that was one issue is the size.
Len Noe: But the one thing and I've said this earlier in this episode, I have no problem being reckless, but I can't be stupid, right? You know, and and the issue that keeps drawing me to a stop is I could very, very easily implant a Raspberry Pi Pico board in my arm. You know, they're really small. How do I power it?
Mackenzie Jackson: Right. Okay. Yeah.
Len Noe: That's the problem. And don't get me wrong, I have come up with some of the craziest ideas, you know, everything from wiring two dermal implants to the outside of my arm and doing like a mag lock. Yeah. I've looked, I've researched glucose fuel cells. I've researched graphene batteries. I know the US military has something. I guarantee you they have something. I don't have access to that. Right. So, you know, as and I have tried so many different tests. I've tried creating working with some CAD designers to build my own little SBC, you know, the the most minimal form factor with the smallest amount of heat dispersion. And we just can't come up with anything that can run for any amount of time that doesn't get heated up to the point where it would start causing cellular degradation. And my wife, you know, we talk about me a lot. Are you married, if I'm married?
Mackenzie Jackson: I am married. Yeah.
Len Noe: Okay. I want you to think about this for about a half a second. Take one of the craziest things that you can think of, like, "Oh, honey, I've decided I'm going to take this silver dollar-sized piece of circuitry and I'm going to implant it in the top of my hand." Now, do something like that conversation 11 more times and still she supports you. So, as much as I do a lot to push the needle forward, I have a really amazing partner in life that can look at me and go, "You know what? You're weird. I get it. Go be you. I still love you. It's okay." But it's it's a lot to ask. Yeah. But I can't be stupid. I promised her that no matter what I do, I will make sure that I am limiting my my risk exposures. And until we can find a way to power these, I don't see the point in just putting an implant in my arm.
Mackenzie Jackson: That could be part of the criticism around this, too, is that it's just kind of like all showboating and that. And I think this proves that it's absolutely not that that this is like here. But what why the computer? I mean, I get the idea for the computer, but what what could that really do? That's you different from like this like this is a computer that's kind of part like almost always on me.
Len Noe: Yeah, it's part of you. Yeah, it's part of you. And I won't say that mine isn't part of me. For me, it's something a lot deeper, you know, and I think it goes back to this is how I've tried to explain this to someone else. And I'm going to try this with you, and we'll see if it has the same effect. Imagine you you find yourself in a position where you're amongst an, they don't have the ability to, they have, they have no sight. Let's say it's, you know, some civilization, you know, living in caves somewhere. They've, you know, they've evolved differently. Maybe they, since they can't see, maybe they have more acute hearing. Maybe they have developed, you know, almost like a sonar capability, you know, with sound. I don't know.
Mackenzie Jackson: Yeah.
Len Noe: Explain sight to them.
Mackenzie Jackson: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. There's a there's a guy on YouTube that's been blind from life and like, you know, like and he was explaining how ridiculous the concept of something being smaller when it's further away to when it's up here. He's just like, "I expect it."
Len Noe: You just like, "Yeah, that was the one I was."
Mackenzie Jackson: Thanks.
Len Noe: No problem. He was he was like explaining how stupid that sounds to him and just how like how could something because his only reference is touch. It's the same. It's that you say, "How could something be smaller because it's further away?" That makes no sense. Like, and for me personally, these implants are as much a part of me as my sight or, you know, my sense of hearing, my sense of taste, you know, and trying to explain to somebody that aspect alone. But for me, the ability to to have a full computer in there, to me is that final link because at that point especially if it has the ability to have Wi-Fi or something then I can actually connect to that and I at that point and I know this may sound a little dramatic and it's we're getting a little philosophical about it but at that point I think you know that would be the point where man and the machine actually shake hands. I mean I can walk up I can pat it on the back. You know I can walk in and you know I can touch the digital. Yeah. But it's that fast. It's, I mean it kind of reminds me like we we have these here which are you're talking about this at a perspective of feeling connected to it. You know, these here are human remains. I know that you have human remains in in your body from I believe it's your brother or.
Mackenzie Jackson: It was, I call him my brother, but his name was Rick D'vor, right? And he was honestly my one of my best friends in the world and actually when I was going through a really, really rough time in my life, he actually saved my life. He was there when nobody else was and I was being extremely self-destructive and if it wasn't for him, I don't know if I would be here today. And, you know, unfortunately, he's passed. And what I did, this is actually another Dangerous Things product, and it's one that you you didn't ask the one question that most people usually do, which is which one is means the most or which one's your favorite, right? And at this point, all of the other ones, they're they're cool. They make me feel more connected to the technology, you know, on a philosophical level. But what I've done is I bought a Memoriam is the name of the implant, and it is you can get it either just human remains or you can actually have them mix it with UV reactive glow powder and then you can actually depending on where you put it in your body as long as it's not you're not like me and stick it in your leg. So now I had to try and just go order off of Amazon the 3000 watt UV light. It's I'm going to look like I have a circle sunburn all the time, but you can actually bring your deceased loved one back out for a few minutes. And, you know, a lot of people look at funerary jewelry. I mean, I know a couple of people who have ashes in a pendant or a charm or a bracelet or something like that because we want to stay connected to those those loved ones. They and I I will not take this away from them, but I just think I it means a little bit more coming from me when I say that I take my dead friend with me every step everywhere I go and will for the rest of my life. He is actually underneath the memorial tattoo of him on my leg.
Len Noe: I think and I I that helps I think that helps understand kind of some of the the psychology. It's like we talk a lot and I'm previous about what you can do. I mean, you can hack a foot, you know, like all that, but it it feels like it's a bit deeper and it's like really a part of you and understanding that. And I think this kind of helps put that into perspective where this doesn't, this I mean it gives you it gives you a lot of ability, but it's not like you can hack someone because of this. It's but this is how you experience the world. And I'm not telling everybody to do, you know, I I won't tell anybody what they should do. Yeah. I'll tell you what I did. If you think it was a good idea and you have questions, I'll be happy to answer them. If you have an opinion, as long as you can convey it to me in an appropriate manner, yeah, I'd love to hear it. You know, I'm not dumb enough to think that everybody's going to look at me and go, "Hey, number one, he's cool." No, I'm a jerk. Two, I want to do that. Yeah. Well, if that's the case, let's talk and let's make sure you do it the right way and the safe way. Yeah. This guy's crazy. Not going to necessarily disagree with you, but the technology is here and the the medical companies, the governments, they they play with this kind of experiment stuff all the time. Why shouldn't we?
Mackenzie Jackson: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. No, I I agree. And like, you know, every time I talk to you, I feel like I get a little bit close to having something. So, if my wife is watching this, it'd be like, "That's the last podcast he'll do."
Len Noe: Okay. To his wife, honestly, they're not that bad. Did I tell you about the Lovetron 9000?
Mackenzie Jackson: Dude, this is weird. This will. Yeah, I don't think you did tell me, but I feel like I immediately know what it is.
Len Noe: Oh, there is a gentleman by the name of Rich Lee and I am seriously, he put this patent down, but I I'm thinking about taking it back up. It is a small device that creates a vibrating sensation that is installed at the base of the male genitalia that is actually activated by a magnet switch.
Mackenzie Jackson: Okay, she might be on board now. You know, I actually wrote about that in my book. It So, yeah, I'm not kidding. It's something he got a patent for. And he didn't finish making it. So, I've been considering reaching out to him and going, "Do you mind if I try and make a couple of these things?" Well, you let me know. I go, I don't want to be patient one. I had a few patients in between. I don't blame you. Hey, Len, we have to wrap it up now. But hey, it's been so fun to chat with you. Always weird.
Len Noe: Anywhere, any place that you want to get together and have a conversation. Actually, if you want, we can do it. I'd love to get back with you in about a month and a half or two. I'm actually getting two new implants as soon as I get back home. One of them is a new VivoKey Ring Apex. So, this will give me the ability to do tap to pay with my hand again, and I will have the big blinkies.
Mackenzie Jackson: Oh, yeah. I can't wait to see the big blinkies. So, yeah. Hey, Len. Thanks so much for coming in.
Len Noe: Mackenzie, always a pleasure, brother.
